[LD-SIG Discussion List] discuss Digest, Vol 21, Issue 3
Amanda Bradley
amandapb48 at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 5 20:01:12 CST 2008
Dear Jim et al,
I probably can't take part in your lang learning experience unless it's retrospective because of work commitments, but I'm irrisistibly drawn into your discussion: bec ause it's so relevant to LD and L-teacher-D!
I do think putting ourselves in the students' position by learning a language humanizes us. That's the most important aspect of your suggestion for me and it fits with LD and some of the interpretations and practical applications of LD that I've just seen and taken part in at JALT.
I also use journals as a tool of the trade to help the students to learn and me to teach and they are THE most useful and valuable asset for us, and I've written about them a few times, as have others.
On that subject, I was recently struck by the fact that several well known academics wrote that there was little on the topic I was researching except what they had written. I then found rather a lot of overlapping and even repeated materials published by different writers on it. If anything, it tells me that I don't have to be original.
About Swahili etc, my mentor taught me to "take nothing" for granted". It might be difficult to find a language that doesn't resonate with someone in a group of language teachers. I happened to have learned some Swahili.It was also subsequently one of the foreign languages to choose from in my grad school programme. I heard a lot about it, interacted with the teacher and still have the sounds of the language, and her striking laughter, in my ears!
What I mean is that I (and those with similar approaches) think you need an entry point of connection to learn any language, and I would create my entry point come what come may, or I wouldn't be able to learn.
On that note, the language I eventually chose at grad school was Indonesian and I was negative because I knew nothing about it. On day one, however, the teacher, Budi Winata, asked if we knew anything about Indonesia and I said, "Was that Batavia?". He took the question as a cue and expanded on the history of Indonesia/Batavia under the Dutch. The connection was created, the teacher showed that it was important, by taking the time to follow it up, and my Indonesian learning was a-weigh and I remember much of the content and process of those lessons now, years later.
A major challenge with less successful students is that they don't appear to make a connection with English and anything inside of themselves or outside of the English class. The successful ones do, of course.
Anyway hope your language learning venture gets afloat and I look forward to connecting with it by reading about it.
Good luck!
Amanda
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Ronald James <jamesmartinronald at yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> From: Ronald James <jamesmartinronald at yahoo.co.jp>
> Subject: Re: [LD-SIG Discussion List] discuss Digest, Vol 21, Issue 3
> To: discuss at ld-sig.org
> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:15 AM
> Dear Steve, Ellen, anyone,
>
> thanks for your responses - I'm agreeably provoked by
> your
> response, Steve, and encouraged by yours, Ellen. Last year
> when I started Spanish it was with a reason similar to
> your Swahili idea, Steve - no current need and no plan to
> use it, a bit like the majority of our students'
> position
> re English. I was thinking of that project partly as
> something to be written up, but I think the main benefit
> is in how it changes me and helps me understand the
> motivational and other struggles faced by many English
> learners in Japan.
>
> As for Korean, it would be a bit different from the
> beginning. As I was trying to explain to a student
> yesterday, Spanish was a challenge (just to keep going!)
> but I see Korean as an adventure, since my aim is to use
> it with real Korean speakers here or in Korea, even
> minimally. And that may well be my focus - how to get the
> language being learned out of the classroom or textbook,
> how to help make it an adventure for my students, rather
> than just a challenge or struggle with TOEIC and TOEFL
> scores the only carrot drawing them on...
>
> Anyway, I think that there are lots of ways of approaching
> this - your Rosetta Stone idea sounds like a lot of fun,
> too, Steve. You just need to find a few people who would
> be prepared to take it on. And our different approaches,
> languages, experiences, could all help increase our
> understanding and motivation as teachers. (Sorry if it
> sounds a bit pompous or whatever!)
>
> I think that perhaps the main language target for people
> here who don't count their time in Japan in decades is
> Japanese, unless they are native Japanese speakers. And
> naturally, taking on another foreign language might not
> seem the best use of time...
>
> Perhaps there are some Japanese speaking teachers of
> English who are/would like to start a new foreign
> language? To understand where our learners are, and where
> we no longer are with our "good" language.
>
> Anyway, that's more than enough for today! Provocative,
> supportive, off-the-wall responses welcome!
>
> Jim
>
>
>
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> > Today's Topics:
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> > 1. Re: Learning a foreign language... (Steve
> > Davies)
> > 2. Re: Two cheers for diversity (ellen head)
> > 3. Journals/Jim's Proposal (Steve Davies)
> > 4. Re: Okayama Villa - dang! (Stacey Vye)
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:07:01 +0900
> > From: Steve Davies <sdavies at miyazaki-mic.ac.jp>
> > Subject: Re: [LD-SIG Discussion List] Learning a
> > foreign language...
> > To: Discussion list for JALT ld-sig members
> > <discuss at ld-sig.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <1da60f2710344479499fc0c873cf2ed1 at miyazaki-mic.ac.jp>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252;
> > format=flowed
> >
> > Jim:
> >
> > As you most likely know, this kind of
> > auto-ethnographic self-study of
> > language learning has been done before. The basic
> > idea being to use
> > meta-reflective data ??typically drawn from learner
> > diaries ? to
> > illustrate issues in the learning process. Sometimes
> > a theoretical
> > perspective, eg. Vygotskian self and other
> > regulation (yawn), is used
> > as a sort of interpretive guide; in other cases, the
> > learner simply
> > comments on the diary entries in some way, perhaps
> > reflecting on
> > classroom interaction etc. So, it seems to me that
> > we might do well to
> > consider an alternative approach; since it is not
> > possible for us to
> > join a class together, perhaps we could explore a
> > CD Rom self-study
> > program such as the Rosetta Stone stuff?
> >
> > http://www.rosettastone.com/offer/cj127.
> >
> > If we picked a language that no one has the
> > slightest practical
> > interest in ??Swahili? ? it would guarantee that
> > motivation level is
> > zero for all of us, and one key variable would be
> > eliminated. After
> > agreeing on the issues we want to explore, we could
> > each spend, say, a
> > month trying to learn as much as possible, and then
> > mail the program to
> > the next person on the list.
> >
> > I don't think I've ever seen an article/paper
> where
> > longitudinal data
> > about a computer mediated program have been written
> > up. It might be
> > fun.
> >
> > Anyway, just a few thoughts.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > > it was good to meet or get to know a bit better
> so
> > many LD
> > > people at the JALT conference. The best bits for
> > me were
> > > just sitting down and talking together! Look
> > forward to
> > > more!
> > >
> > > I am thinking of a learner development/teacher
> > development
> > > project and wonder if other people anywhere may
> be
> > > interested. I've mentioned it to a couple of
> > people (sorry
> > > for the boring repetition...)
> > >
> > > The idea is simply to learn a foreign language
> and
> > keep a
> > > learner/teacher diary in order to understand and
> > reflect
> > > on the experiences of those we teach or guide -
> > the
> > > challenges, disappointments, discoveries, peaks
> > and
> > > valleys. I did it last year with Spanish (a
> > language
> > > chosen for not being immediately useful!) - and
> > aim to
> > > start with Korean in January, maybe in a class or
> > with a
> > > group of people who want to learn... It could be
> > as
> > > solitary, independent, cooperative, structured or
> > not as
> > > suits you.
> > >
> > > Anyone interested in joining this adventure? Have
> > a think
> > > about it and let me know sometime.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim Ronald
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:32:22 -0800 (PST)
> > From: ellen head <ellenkobe at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LD-SIG Discussion List] Two cheers for
> > diversity
> > To: Discussion list for JALT ld-sig members
> > <discuss at ld-sig.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <363047.75771.qm at web56402.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Hi Steve and everyone
> > Re your prev. mail, Steve, I think it's
> > provocative in the extreme!! Let's say self-other
> > mediation is as familiar/necessary as wearing
> > clothes/eating etc. I can tell you what I'm
> > interested in is marvellous me investigated by
> > diary, because I continue to fascinate myself (most
> > of the time) whatever I wear, eat or say, although
> > the mechanisms are similar the
> > combination/content/chemistry is ever-new. (Or there
> > is a challenge of transforming the patterns). By the
> > same token other people's diary studies are
> > fascinating because there's that "bit same
> bit
> > different" thing going on. Anyway it was
> interesting
> > to see the Rosetta stone site! cheers
> > Ellen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:40:17 +0900
> > From: Steve Davies <sdavies at miyazaki-mic.ac.jp>
> > Subject: [LD-SIG Discussion List] Journals/Jim's
> > Proposal
> > To: Discussion list for JALT ld-sig members
> > <discuss at ld-sig.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <80a6da9bcc15f05d6d7428fa65721fd9 at miyazaki-mic.ac.jp>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252;
> > format=flowed
> >
> > Members:
> >
> >
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